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quotes - don't let the bastards grind you down.
knowledge is widespread. i'm reading rumsfeld's rules, which has been floating around the internet for a bit.

"A's hire A's and B's hire C's". i've heard that before...it's true. top caliber people surround themselves with top caliber people. merely good people surround themselves with lessers, to feel superior. it makes me happy to know that my two closest friends are greg and steve. it also makes me feel a little elitist, which i don't really like, but i do consider myself an A-level person. especially considering all the people i meet and know.

"Persuasion is a two-edged sword -- reason and emotion -- plunge it deep" (Professor Lewis Sarett, Sr.)

Interesting...anybody who knows a lot about logic and arguments will tell you that a well thought out argument contains neither...they're logic holes...i.e. emotion is not a reason to base anything on, because it's subjective, and reason is just kinda whining, trying to convince someone, instead of being a sound argument.

but persuasion is all about that...persuasion is not about the argument being argued...that's just a starting point. persuasion is more about getting the person being persuaded to agree with you, right? so it's more about manipulation than whether or not your argument is sound. scary, because someone who is very persuasive can get you to agree with them no matter what the arguement is.

which is the point of hihg-pressure "vacations" where you hvae to listen to a time-share speech. so far i haven't said anything too shocking...we've all had experience with this. :).

but someone who is good at persuasion can quickly get a reputation as being persuasive no matter the argument, and can find that that overrules his persuasive power...people are immediately distrustful. look at the current plight of corporate executives. yet people who insist on logic to make the argument for them ignore the idea that people might not see it their way, or are dumb.

so the real key to persuasion and logic and basically the key to being a successful people person is to balance these two facts....making sure you understand logic and can figure out a sound platform to argue about, and then use reason and emotion to appeal to your audience.

hmm..just some food for thought.
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jessicamower From: jessicamower Date: October 4th, 2002 08:30 am (UTC) (Link)
swolfe From: swolfe Date: October 4th, 2002 08:47 am (UTC) (Link)
class Logic extends Reason
qed From: qed Date: October 4th, 2002 10:53 am (UTC) (Link)


"Logic" and "proof" involve derivation from assumptions in a specified symbolic system. Real-life arguments and debates don't (usually) take place in a formal symbolic system. There's no such thing as a logical argument, a logical debate, or a logical choice.

A rational argument just means you've started with a bunch of assumptions and generated a proof-like structure to support your hypothesis. The steps you've taken to "prove" your hypothesis are themselves usually based on other assumptions. Most likely you're actively trying to hide your assumptions to make the argument appear "objective", which just means you deliberately throw in some contrived opposing points to make your argument more palatable.

If you're trying to persuade certain types of people, a rational approach is best, but only because certain types of people have negative emotional reactions to emotional persuasion. If I say, "We shouldn't invade Iraq because it's wrong, and War is Evil", I look ridiculous. If I say, "We shouldn't invade Iraq because they have the same right to self-determination as the United States, and war with Iraq will drive up oil prices and lead to unemployment" I look a little more reasonable. Neither one is in any way a logical argument: the second one is simply a little better crafted than the first.
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