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from the washington post (a paper with a decidedly conservative… - don't let the bastards grind you down.
taumeson
taumeson
from the washington post (a paper with a decidedly conservative viewpoint, minus some Op/Ed)

Col. David Hogg, commander of the 2nd Brigade of the 4th Infantry Division, said tougher methods are being used to gather the intelligence. On Wednesday night, he said, his troops picked up the wife and daughter of an Iraqi lieutenant general. They left a note: "If you want your family released, turn yourself in." Such tactics are justified, he said, because, "It's an intelligence operation with detainees, and these people have info." They would have been released in due course, he added later.

The tactic worked. On Friday, Hogg said, the lieutenant general appeared at the front gate of the U.S. base and surrendered.


no shit it worked. i defy someone to tell us how we're different than airplane hijackers at this point.

edit: a thought about our country going downhill from a comment on a blog:
"We've heard and dicsussed a lot about liberal apathy, but I wonder how much more conservative apathy there is. I mean who does the Bush administration actually represent.

Road to totalitarianism or the road away from a liberal democracy:

HomeSec (Hi Tom!)
TIA
PATRIOT ACT
Government/Industry collusion (Enron et al)
Largest prison system in the world
Victimless crimes with mandatory sentencing
Warmongering/Region conquest
Lies upon lies
Anti-States rights (think death with dignity, pot)
The arbitrary elimination of due process for certain crimes
The fading line between church and state
Support of terrorist states (Saudi Arabia)
Support of anti-humantarian regimes (Israel)
Abuse of executive priveldge (think Cheney and energy)
Unilaterialism
Anti-International justice (ICC immunity)
UN Bullying
Attempts at legislating nationalism (flag amendment)
Focus on international conquest instead of domestic issues
Blurring the line between terrorism, religion, and race.
Inter-Agency fighting regarding national security
"
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Comments
chaos4675 From: chaos4675 Date: July 29th, 2003 11:35 am (UTC) (Link)
It's a sad world we live in. The question I have to ask myself though is this, is this the will of the country? Is it just that my views differ so drastically from the country as a whole? I really wish I could afford an island.
katsby From: katsby Date: July 29th, 2003 11:59 am (UTC) (Link)
american militial tactics suck so much sometimes... but at least they're being a bit more honest about it now, i guess??

or does this mean that since we know about this, there's worse shit going on?

bah. we're no better than the rest.
swolfe From: swolfe Date: July 29th, 2003 12:23 pm (UTC) (Link)
i hate politics. i can't even think about it any more without feeling nauseated. i hate everyones' "political views".
taumeson From: taumeson Date: July 29th, 2003 01:22 pm (UTC) (Link)
why do you feel nauseated? by the by, i stole that...that was a quote from a blog..i'll edit my entry to mention that fact....

but why do you hate everyones' opinion? is it uneducated? short-sighted? one-sided? what?
swolfe From: swolfe Date: July 29th, 2003 06:58 pm (UTC) (Link)
i'd write about it, but i might throw up on my keyboard...

seriously...
dravenfrost From: dravenfrost Date: July 29th, 2003 02:48 pm (UTC) (Link)
I agree with Steve, but I hate everything because it's all so fucking biased. Nothing is even trying to be objective anymore. If you look at the list you cut and paste, its full of subjective language trying to invoke an emotional response.

What I like to see are lists of the logical arguments from both sides of a viewpoint. This seems to be rarer and rarer to find. It's not very often that something is just obviously one-sidedly stupid, so I want to get all sides of the discussion.

Also, taking a family into custody to get a war criminal to surrender himself is a little different than hijacking planes and killing thousands of people. I honestly don't even know how you can make that comparison.
taumeson From: taumeson Date: July 29th, 2003 03:07 pm (UTC) (Link)
but I hate everything because it's all so fucking biased. Nothing is even trying to be objective anymore.

i agree in principle, but it seems that, anymore, nobody listens unless you scream. biased invective is the political equivalent of screaming one-side of the story.

a little different than hijacking planes and killing thousands of people. I honestly don't even know how you can make that comparison.

that's a little unfair. i wasn't really going for the 9/11 hijackers...i'm talking about all the planes that get hijacked every year, forced to go to casablanca or jakarta or some such. i'm talking about the PLO hijacking planes in 1978, or whatever.

i'm talking about kidnapping people to force officers of the government (be they the secretary of state or a military officer) to do your bidding.
ferricide From: ferricide Date: July 29th, 2003 04:47 pm (UTC) (Link)
"Also, taking a family into custody to get a war criminal to surrender himself..."

i missed the bit where it said he was a war criminal. are all iraqi military war criminals?
qed From: qed Date: July 29th, 2003 05:07 pm (UTC) (Link)
I've noticed more and more of my friends seem to be saying things like "Nothing is even trying to be objective anymore". I can't figure out if we're just getting old or what, but do you remember a time when politics was an intelligent, rational process in which the consequences of decisions were carefully weighed and measured?

I don't see a lot of the big changes that seem to be obvious to other people. I don't see the United States as having entered some drastically different political state. We're currently more conservatie than we were in the 90s, but I don't think it's terribly different than it was in the 80s. Homeland Security and the War on Terror don't seem much worse than the Red Scare (not that I remember that one personally). It may well be that my memory is not good enough to track the way these things change over time. I'm really curious to know if you guys actually perceive a change over time, or if sentences like "Nothing is even trying to be objective anymore" are just a particular way of phrasing a thought.
dravenfrost From: dravenfrost Date: July 29th, 2003 06:03 pm (UTC) (Link)
Maybe it's because I see people I know posting stuff that is blatantly biased and lauding it. The best example off the top of my head is the Bowling for Columbine documentary. A lot of people I know, smart people I respect for their intelligence, told me what an "incredible documentary" it is, and how it's so groundbreaking, etc. Well, I watched it, and it's the most slanted fucking thing I've seen in a long time. Granted, some of it was interesting and some of it was comical, but all the numbers they threw out are beyond meaningless. Ok, so X number of people died by guns in the US last year and (insert some other country here) had only 10% of that! Omfg! We have ten times the number of gun deaths here! But wait a sec, don't we also have about 8 times their population? Oh yeah, we do. Dirf. Most of the impact of what they were trying to say was obliterated for me because the information was so thoroughly slanted for their purposes.
qed From: qed Date: July 29th, 2003 08:03 pm (UTC) (Link)
I certainly see your point... I couldn't get through more than 2 paragraphs of the one Michael Moore book I tried to read. As far as I can remember, the vast majority of discussion I've ever heard from people under the age of 40 (and from most people over the age of 40) is uninformed and purely for entertainment purposes. Almost none of us, myself included, are willing to take to the significant time and energy needed to really form intelligent positions about topics like politics and economics. If we cared that much, we'd be economists or political scientists.

However, my question is: is this something new? I don't remember discussions in high school or college being any better. I seem to be catching more and more people using phrases that I usually associate with older people ("these days", "the way things are going"). My guess is that it's just that we're getting older. But I'm trying to figure out if the United States really has changed that much, and I'm not just not aware of it.
taumeson From: taumeson Date: July 30th, 2003 06:00 am (UTC) (Link)
Maybe it's because I see people I know posting stuff that is blatantly biased and lauding it.

but it doesn't make it wrong. that's one reason i like ann coulter. no matter how mad she makes me because of the trash she spews or because of how wacked out her opinions are, at least she quotes facts. admittedly they're biased, and admittedly she lies often, too, but when she has her shit straight, she's pretty fun.

what made everybody decide to stop seeing through bias and get to the heart of the message?
ferricide From: ferricide Date: July 29th, 2003 04:48 pm (UTC) (Link)
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