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from new scientist: Ovarian tissue from aborted human fetuses has… - don't let the bastards grind you down.
taumeson
taumeson
from new scientist:

Ovarian tissue from aborted human fetuses has been kept alive in the lab, with some cells showing early signs of maturing into fully functional eggs, Israeli scientists have revealed.


Although the possibility remains only theoretical at present, researchers believe it is worth pursuing because there is an acute shortage of donor eggs for women undergoing fertility treatment. If such an egg were used to create a successful pregnancy, the child would have a mother that had never been born.


that is perhaps the scariest thing i've heard in my life. it boggles the mind that that would be acceptable someplace.

later on i read that 6 of the 7 aborted fetuses that they extracted the tissue from where aborted because of severe problems...but what about that 7th? Does that mean it was aborted for no reason other than convenience? Especially horrific is the fact that all the fetuses were between 22 and 33 weeks. With current technology a baby can live after 27 weeks gestation...and it's getting earlier and earlier all the time.

This is horrific.

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Comments
wiffler From: wiffler Date: July 8th, 2003 09:46 am (UTC) (Link)
This won't seem horrific in 50 years. Genetics and cellular research will change the face of health sciences. The current generations have to and will get over the shock. And I'm sure we are in for plenty of shock in our lifetime.
taumeson From: taumeson Date: July 8th, 2003 11:14 am (UTC) (Link)
While I agree with you wholly, I don't think we are going to have a free reign to use technology however we see fit. We're getting so advanced that we need to start thinking about what we're doing with it.

I think clear lines need to be drawn, and I think that we should avoid messing with the unborn as much as possible.
wiffler From: wiffler Date: July 8th, 2003 11:30 am (UTC) (Link)
Better to be messing with the unborn than the born.

we need to start thinking about what we're doing with it.

True...true. I'll take breaking boundries to move society forward though. Who decides what lines to cross? Are we getting our ethics from some story book like the bible? Maybe we were meant to genetically make ourselves better? If we had to know exactly what we were doing with every technilogical advance, we might not have everything we have today. Sorry for this ridiculous reply, just playing the devil's advocate.
taumeson From: taumeson Date: July 8th, 2003 12:52 pm (UTC) (Link)
I obviously agree with breaking boundaries, but in a hokey movie-intro voice, "There are some lines that aren't meant to be crossed". I'm comfortable with those lines not getting crossed for a few centuries.

I'd disagree with the born/unborn comment. There's evidence to suggest that fetuses as young as 8-10 weeks experience pain. Much better for adult volunteers to get tested on than unborn children.

In cases where it HAS to be a fetus, because you're researching stem cells, etc., then use medically aborted fetuses. No reason for them to "go to waste", so to speak.
From: dreaming_aloud Date: July 8th, 2003 10:50 am (UTC) (Link)
That is disturbing. I don't even know where to begin on the ethical questions surrounding this issue.
christy_p From: christy_p Date: July 8th, 2003 11:42 am (UTC) (Link)
that makes my skin crawl.

I had a cousin that was born at 28 weeks...he was really early and was on monitors for a long time, but he was a real live person (and that was 14 years ago). he split the difference of those ages of those aborted.

dravenfrost From: dravenfrost Date: July 8th, 2003 12:41 pm (UTC) (Link)
Without getting into a discussion about late-term abortions, and assuming these aborted fetuses existed for whatever reason, isn't it a great idea to make use of the existing tissues, etc. to help people? To me this sounds almost as common sense as being an organ donor.

Granted, it is a somewhat unsettling idea, but letting the tissues/organs/eggs/whatever go to waste that could be used in other medical procedures, just because of the source, seems pretty insane.
taumeson From: taumeson Date: July 8th, 2003 12:54 pm (UTC) (Link)
Read what I said to Neil...that's pretty much the same response I have for you.

It's remarkably different harvesting tissue and organs versus harvesting gametes...sex cells should be off limits.
dravenfrost From: dravenfrost Date: July 8th, 2003 01:13 pm (UTC) (Link)
"...sex cells should be off limits."

Why?
taumeson From: taumeson Date: July 8th, 2003 04:41 pm (UTC) (Link)
for this reason, among others.

OR

because reproductive rights have always been controlled, and for good reason. between keeping incest down and birth control rates in manageable limits, reproductive control has been around forever. moving into the future, it keeps things manageable and closer to natural.

...and besides, it's naive and egotistical to think that we understand what's going on with reproduction, and that nothing untoward is going to happen.
qed From: qed Date: July 9th, 2003 05:52 am (UTC) (Link)
It's naive and egotistical to think we've fully analyzed ANY of the processes of the human body. But that doesn't mean we should scrap all of modern medicine just because doctors don't really understand exactly what they're doing.

I agree that research and treatment involving sex cells should be controlled, but so should any other genetic medicine. I don't see any reason why they shouldn't continue to experiment with gametes, and develop appropriate treatments based on their findings.
swolfe From: swolfe Date: July 9th, 2003 08:16 am (UTC) (Link)
controlled = more natural? huh?

i think florida is affecting your brain. you've become a lot more close-minded and superstitious since the days when you wanted to do bio-engineering and genetic research. did you want to want to research in france or something because they allowed genetic research on humans?
taumeson From: taumeson Date: July 9th, 2003 08:31 am (UTC) (Link)
controlled and regulated IS more natural compared to the topic at hand. I'm really thinking of China's birth policies versus these frankenbabies.

florida is DEFINATELY affecting my brain. i hate it here. but i'm still all for genetic research...i just think we need to do it on adults and non-humans, or if we absolutely MUST use fetuses, then early developmental ones, prior to 6-8 weeks gestation.

it's all about consent, man.
katsby From: katsby Date: July 9th, 2003 07:56 pm (UTC) (Link)
this is a little... creepy... especially if they're harvesting from defective tissue...

abortions should be legal, in my opinion, but not as an alternative to birth control. and i have very strong feelings against third trimester abortions... and the idiots that wait that long to decide that they dont want a child. geez. wait, no we talked about this forever, didn't we?

interesting article. :)
rosequoll From: rosequoll Date: September 5th, 2003 11:17 pm (UTC) (Link)
I find that disturbing because of the ages of the fetuses...I mean, I'm pro-choice, and with a pregnancy at 4 weeks; 6 weeks, I can understand. The "fetus" at that point isn't even a fetus. More like a little.."blip" or something... but 23 weeks?

Ow, my morality.

-Mouse
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