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Marines turn to God ahead of anticipated Fallujah battle Sat Nov 06… - don't let the bastards grind you down.
taumeson
taumeson
Marines turn to God ahead of anticipated Fallujah battle
Sat Nov 06 2004 09:37:17 ET

NEAR FALLUJAH, Iraq, Nov 6 (AFP) - With US forces massing outside Fallujah, 35 marines swayed to Christian rock music and asked Jesus Christ to protect them in what could be the biggest battle since American troops invaded Iraq last year.

Men with buzzcuts and clad in their camouflage waved their hands in the air, M-16 assault rifles laying beside them, and chanted heavy metal-flavoured lyrics in praise of Christ late Friday in a yellow-brick chapel.

They counted among thousands of troops surrounding the city of Fallujah, seeking solace as they awaited Iraqi Prime Minister Iyad Allawi's decision on whether or not to invade Fallujah.

"You are the sovereign. You're name is holy. You are the pure spotless lamb," a female voice cried out on the loudspeakers as the marines clapped their hands and closed their eyes, reflecting on what lay ahead for them.

The US military, with many soldiers coming from the conservative American south and midwest, has deep Christian roots.

In times that fighting looms, many soldiers draw on their evangelical or born-again heritage to help them face the battle.

"It's always comforting. Church attendance is always up before the big push," said First Sergeant Miles Thatford.

"Sometimes, all you've got is God."

Between the service's electric guitar religious tunes, marines stepped up on the chapel's small stage and recited a verse of scripture, meant to fortify them for war.

One spoke of their Old Testament hero, a shepherd who would become Israel's king, battling the Philistines some 3,000 years ago.

"Thus David prevailed over the Philistines," the marine said, reading from scripture, and the marines shouted back "Hoorah, King David," using their signature grunt of approval.

The marines drew parallels from the verse with their present situation, where they perceive themselves as warriors fighting barbaric men opposed to all that is good in the world.

"Victory belongs to the Lord," another young marine read.

Their chaplain, named Horne, told the worshippers they were stationed outside Fallujah to bring the Iraqis "freedom from oppression, rape, torture and murder ... We ask you God to bless us in that effort."

The marines then lined up and their chaplain blessed them with holy oil to protect them.

"God's people would be annointed with oil," the chaplain said, as he lightly dabbed oil on the marines' foreheads.

The crowd then followed him outside their small auditorium for a baptism of about a half-dozen marines who had just found Christ.

The young men lined up and at least three of them stripped down to their shorts.

The three laid down in a rubber dinghy filled with water and the chaplain's assistant, Navy corpsman Richard Vaughn, plunged their heads beneath the surface.

Smiling, Vaughn baptised them "in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit."

Dripping wet, Corporal Keith Arguelles beamed after his baptism.

"I just wanted to make sure I did this before I headed into the fight," he said on the military base not far from the city of Fallujah.
17 comments or Leave a comment
Comments
From: 1818_1883 Date: November 6th, 2004 10:24 am (UTC) (Link)
1. i doubt anything about the music was "heavy metal-flavoured."
2. anointed with oil before heading into a war over oil? nice.
3. people are such gullible fucks. "lord, protect over me as i violate the sixth commandment."

awesome.
From: gredbaron5 Date: November 11th, 2004 06:32 pm (UTC) (Link)
technically they aren't violating the sixth commandment...

the sixth commandment speaks against murder...

however, death in war is justified, and therefore the commandment is not

"ye shall not kill"

but

"ye shall not murder"

As in Joshua, where the Isrealites were commanded by God to conquer the promised land.

As for people being gullible, some people actually voted for John Kerry.
From: 1818_1883 Date: November 11th, 2004 07:47 pm (UTC) (Link)
people can find technicalities and loopholes to justify anything they feel the need to; the line between hypocrite and innovator is so faint that its very existence can be called into question [especially in regard to the practitioners of organized religion].

speaking of gullibility, some people rely on bullshit texts whose authenticity is a fiction produced in the minds of the mentally ill. next time, just paraphrase an "entertainment weekly" article and i'll be more impressed. at least that's based in reality.

now stay off of my friend's journal, you partisan troll.

p.s.: learn how to spell "Israelite," you fucktard.
From: gredbaron5 Date: November 13th, 2004 09:08 pm (UTC) (Link)
*sighs*...

man, you liberals make the same exact comebacks to anything...I'm really not impressed at all. And what's with the spelling error comments? Do you guys think you're more intelligent just because you paid attention to the way words are spelled? Oh and since we're liberal and have no real balls, we must use lots of foul language to sound tough.
From: 1818_1883 Date: November 14th, 2004 08:10 am (UTC) (Link)
in typical right-wing zealot fashion, you feel that claiming "i have no balls" will somehow hurt my feelings. unlike you and your misogynistic cronies, i'm not demeaned by accusations of castration.

and how typical is it that you call anyone who disagrees with you a "liberal." it's interesting that folks like you have tried to spin the term "liberal" into a pejorative. it's as if you want to shame the other side into agreement. i mean, do you want a democracy or a theocracy? [that's a rhetorical question, by the way. i know exactly what'd you'd prefer.]

i use foul language because i feel it is a valid form of expression. whether or not jesus or lynne cheney or anyone else approves doesn't matter much to me. and it certainly isn't an expression of angst or "toughness" derived from my lack of machismo.

as for your inability to spell the name of the holy people, that's just indicative or your intellectual laziness.

and i'm not a liberal, i'm a fucking radical.
From: gredbaron5 Date: November 14th, 2004 09:59 am (UTC) (Link)
Standard Formula for Making Christians appear wrong:

1) Proofread their entire passage; if they mispell something, you can use that against them, and tell them how dumb they are, even though the best writers often can't spell.

2) Manipulate things into your favor, although the things you manipulate can be used both ways.

3) Quote the Bible to mean literal translations, even though you don't believe in it, make sure it justifies your actions however.

4) Include a negative comment at the end.
From: 1818_1883 Date: November 14th, 2004 12:49 pm (UTC) (Link)
dude, don't act like i'm the only one here being negative. you jumped in even though i was posting on MY friend's lj and not directing anything toward you. you're not even invited; you're just lurking.

in any case, how is claiming that i'm a radical a "negative" thing to say? i'm affirming my position, as you have done so many times.

this isn't even really about you being a christian. many of my friends are religious, and i have a deep respect for their opinions and beliefs. but you're just a knee-jerk reactionary who appears to have a very limited knowledge of your own faith.

i'm irked by the fact that folks like you have tried to claim christ for the gop, when there are many individuals who are both devout christians and political "liberals."

that all being said, you have not responded to a single point of criticism in this entire thread. you just keep calling me names without backing it up. so do us a favor: get off the computer, get sterilized, and learn some tolerance.
From: gredbaron5 Date: November 14th, 2004 03:22 pm (UTC) (Link)
I've seen "devout Christians" that go to bars get drunk and beat their wives...just because someone says they're a Christian doesn't mean they are. However, I was very pleased with the last election, as it seems that my viewpoints seem to be growing, whereas yours, while promoted by the media and protests and people like you writing on the internet, seem to be dimishing very quickly. I have a feeling that soon you will become a Christian...and you will share the same opinions as I do. At the moment, you will say "Never in my life" and things like, "I'm too smart for that". You will try to justify your beliefs as much as possible...but in the end they will amount to nothing. What's sad for you is that Christians are growing impatient with tolerating people like you...we don't want to you stain the moral fabric of our country and our beliefs. So slowly we will continue to grow and multiply, slowly moving into areas where you live, and soon...there will be too many of us for your opinion to count.

Enjoy trying to stop us!
From: 1818_1883 Date: November 15th, 2004 08:54 am (UTC) (Link)
that is, hands down, the most absolutely insane thing i have ever read in my life. you have no idea what my current or past religious affiliations are/were. you have no understanding of my spiritual state, past or present. furthermore, even were i to one day practice christianity [and don't hold your breath], i will never "share your opinions." you're irrational, elitist, and boring. the only thing that gives me any comfort is the hope that you're joking. because... wow. if not, you're fucking imbalanced.

as for christians "growing impatient" with people like me, well that's just fine. i suppose the "tolerance" aspect of your religious practice is negotiable as well?

you're viewpoint has grown in the mainstream. you're right. and whether or not the election is a result of this i couldn't say. but, i will say this: just because something is the majority's position doesn't make it right or moral. nazism [and its correlating practices]was the norm for a while, as was legal slavery and a host of other atrocities. the problem with folks like you is that you lack any sense of history. and you fail to see the complexities inside every issue. you're completely banal.

if there is god, i'd bet he is ashamed of you.

From: gredbaron5 Date: November 16th, 2004 01:53 pm (UTC) (Link)
When writing to the Church in Corinth, Paul says to "drive out the wicked among you", he also says that tolerating evil is an "arrogant" attitude. (1 Corinthians 5:2 and 5:13)

So God would be ashamed of me telling you that you are wrong, when in fact Jesus says if you are ashamed of him he will be ashamed of you on the day of judgement?

Lack sense of History..hah...that's my major, and in fact I'm quite good at it.

And what if the mainstream viewpoint now is right? What if your viewpoint is wrong? Would you condemn your viewpoint if it were morally wrong?

In fact, a Christian must not be balanced. He or she must rely on the teachings from the Bible, which is the holy word of God. Therefore it is necessary to be unbalanced from a human perspective. In other words, if something is not fair from your perspective, does not mean its not fair from God's perspective. i.e.- A gay union...in a human democratic perspective, it's only fair to allow such things, however since the Bible says that homosexuality is a sin, I have to oppose such a thing happening. Why?...because of the earlier quote from the Bible in 1 Corinthians. And what about other things like divorce? Isn't that wrong as well? Yes, as a matter of fact it is, and I am ashamed that we Christians seem to not put as much emphasis on things such as divorce, as we should be putting a lot of emphasis on all sin.

I have one question though? Why is the German National Socialist Workers party related so often in arguements against Christian opinions in government? Do you not know that Hitler definately was not a Christian? Do you know of their pagan god worship? That Hitler's plan for the future was the complete destruction of all major religions except for the old German pagan gods?

As for slavery, that did happen quite often, if fact many times in the Bible. In fact in one part of the Old Testament God says, "If you are a slave, be a good slave", however the rest of the verse is that your master should treat you fairly, which rarely happened in the old south. In fact if you look at it you are a slave...you work, and make money. Slaves worked, and were provided food and shelter, which is what you buy with money. Slaves had rules, so do we. Essentially everyone is a slave to society and modern civilization. So you could in fact argue, that under proper treatment and circumstances, slavery was OK. But don't get me wrong, it was not OK in the early United States. But I'm only going on history and what the Bible says about it.

The only thing God is ashamed of from me is sin, which nobody is perfect(except of course for Jesus), that's why Jesus died to save you from sin. In arguing against your viewpoint and showing you what God has to say about the situation, I'm very sure that God is pleased.
From: 1818_1883 Date: November 17th, 2004 07:09 am (UTC) (Link)
you are absolutely impossible to reason with. your inability to hold down an intellectual conversation without reverting to your religious beliefs is just too depressing. i'm not cluttering up nathaniel's page anymore.
From: gredbaron5 Date: November 17th, 2004 08:08 pm (UTC) (Link)
Sorry, you'd probably have more fun arguing with an unbiased opinion, but my religion doesn't allow me to really be unbiased. If you wish to talk about stuff that doesn't involve religion, please don't get into a politcal arguement that is contraversial to the Christian religion.
(Deleted comment)
From: gredbaron5 Date: November 14th, 2004 09:50 am (UTC) (Link)
first off I'm not Catholic, so I don't believe in Sainthood...

and...
that is the original Hebrew translation
(Deleted comment)
From: gredbaron5 Date: November 14th, 2004 03:10 pm (UTC) (Link)
yes, but the reason for jesus telling peter to put away the sword was so that jesus could be persecuted and taken away with no resistance. during the early church christians did not fight because there was little hope of them overthrowing the Roman Empire given their size...they had to grow first
From: gredbaron5 Date: November 14th, 2004 04:33 pm (UTC) (Link)
Oh, I read some of Acts too...

Acts 17:26-27- "From one man he made every nation of men, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he determined the times set for them and the exact places where they should live. (27) God did this so that men would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from each one of us."

The way I interperate that is that the Iraq war can be justified as God's will to spread the gospel to the people of Iraq.

Aslo, do you not remember Cornelius? The Roman Centurion, who was "an upright and God-fearing man, who is well spoken of by all Jerusalem" (Acts 10:22)

Furthermore, there is no reference in the New Testament of any soldier leaving their profession because they were a Christian. I think the entire bit with Cornelius justifies war totally, because he was a God-fearing soldier before he was baptized, and he continued on with service in the Roman Army.

And why does Jesus tell his disciples to arm themselves(Luke 22:35, 36), before he tells Peter to put away his sword? For the exact same reason I mentioned earlier, he had to fulfill the scripture. Peter killing his captors would have prevented him from doing so.

Also Paul mentions that Peace is not always possible...Romans 12:18 says "If possible, so far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone"

Oh and here is a good one...

When writing to the Church in Corinth, Paul says to "drive out the wicked among you", he also says that tolerating evil is an "arrogant" attitude. (1 Corinthians 5:2 and 5:13)

Also the reason that many Christians did not serve in the Military till the time of Constantine was the fact that they were being persecuted by the Roman government. Why would you join the military to persecute your own kind?

If you do want to go by St. Augustine and Thomas Aquinas however...

I feel that the war has Just cause because I feel that the Iraqi regime under Saddam Hussein had an attachment with Al-Queda and therefore was part of an offensive action against the United States.

I feel that the United States has no economic gain of any sort in this, since most liberals tend to point out that this war costs us so many billions of dollars per month.

I feel that diplomacy was used TOO much in the Iraq situation...therefore we did use enough of it.

We told them when we were going to attack them, therefore showing a full declaration of war.

We reached our one objective which was overthrowing Saddam Hussein, now we are helping to bring a peace.

We used no Nuclear, Biological, or Chemical weapons in this war...which leads me to believe no unecessary force was used in the conflict.

And finally, We have been doing all that is possible to protect the innocent from being harmed.

Therefore, I conclude that the war in Iraq is justified not only in my opinion of a just war, but yours.
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